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 Post subject: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:54 pm 
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Posts: 89
Spying Mission vs. Archon Investigation

Spying Mission is very useful for so-called 'responsible' (stealth) bleed. Here's how it works:

Spying Mission
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Obfuscate
[obf] +1 stealth.
[OBF] Only usable when a bleed would be successful. The bleed burns no pool; it is unsuccessful. Instead, put this card on the acting vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed.

A: Ozmo bleeds with Govern the Unaligned - it's a bleed of 4 at no stealth.
B: Carna to block (with a built-in one intercept).
A: Ozmo is Lost in Crowds... and Swallowed by the Night.
B: Sigh. No block. How much?
A: Here's Conditioning - it's a bleed of 7!
B: Boinnnnng! Deflection says it's my prey's problem.
A: Bleed of 7 at 2 stealth coming at you, C.
C: Yeah, lovely, I'm ousted.
A: But wait, it is only a Spying Mission! You are saved (for now) by my l33t deck design and play skillz!

At which point the action succeeds, but the bleed fails, as it is for 0. The Edge does not move. Ozmo gets to put the Spying Mission on himself, and can burn it the next time he bleeds Methuselah C to increase the bleed amount by 2. (Or he can play another Spying Mission and postpone the bleed yet again - at which time C is looking at +4 bleed.)

There is another interesting interaction involving Spying Mission, which is in relation to Archon Investigation. Assume B has been ousted:

Archon Investigation
Type: Master
Cost: 3 pool
Master: out-of-turn.
Only usable when a minion is attempting to bleed you and the bleed amount is 4 or more. Burn the acting minion. (The action is not successful.)

A: Ozmo bleeds for 2 (with his built-in +1).
C: No block.
A: Bleed is successful, then? Ozmo burns his Spying Mission to make it a bleed of 4.
C: Archon Investigation! Suck it, Ozmo!
A: Uh... You can't play Archon Investigation on a bleed of 2. And you can't play Archon Investigation after a bleed is successful, which is the timing window for Spying Mission to take effect. So you are pwned.
C: Motherfunkychicken! <overturns table>


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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:03 pm 
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Posts: 89
Faceless Night vs. Familial Bond

Faceless Night
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Obfuscate
[obf] +1 stealth.
[OBF] +1 stealth, and any minion who attempts to block this action and fails becomes tapped when the action is resolved (before resolving the action).

Familial Bond
Type: Reaction
Requires: laibon
Cost: 1 blood
Requires a Laibon.
Only usable on an action directed at another Laibon you control or on a bleed against you. +1 intercept. If this block fails, the acting minion may choose to make the action fail. If the action succeeds, this Laibon may tap (after resolution) to enter combat with the acting minion.

Example:
Amavi untaps with Guard Dogs and attempts to block a bleed from my predator's Evan Klein. Evan plays Faceless Night at superior. Amavi plays Familial Bond. Evan adds more stealth, so that the block is failing. If my predator doesn't choose to make the action fail, will Amavi tap (due to Faceless Night) before she can tap to enter combat (due to Familial Bond)?

The card text would appear to say 'no', but I don't really understand either Faceless Night's 'when the action is resolved (before resolving the action)' timing or Familial Bond's combat 'after resolution' of the action timing.

Correct: no.

With all blocks declined the action reaches resolution step.
Before resolving tap Amavi due to Faceless Night.
Resolve the effects of the successful action (target Methuselah burns pool for the bleed).
After resolving Amavi may tap to enter combat thanks to Familial Bond, but she can't since she's tapped already.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:12 pm 
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Posts: 89
Derange vs. Anarch Convert

Donovan had asked about the effects of removing a Derange from an Anarch. In most cases, the original sect change (from when the Derange was put on the vampire) will remove the anarch counter, and there's no issue, but what about vampires which are inherently anarch, like Anarch Convert:

Derange
Type: Action
Requires: Malkavian/Malkavian antitribu
This is a +1 stealth action.
(D) Put this card on a younger vampire. The vampire with this card is considered to be the same clan as the acting vampire. The vampire with this card does not untap as normal. During his or her controller's untap phase, he or she may burn 1 blood to untap. The vampire with this card may move it to another vampire as a (D) action. This card cannot be placed on a Malkavian or Malkavian antitribu.

Suppose Anarch Convert gets Deranged (let's say to Malkavian). He becomes Camarilla. Suppose then that he changes sect back to independent, thanks to Fall of the Camarilla. Is the Anarch Convert an Anarch again?

No. Not unless some other effect is introduced to make him anarch again. [10.5]


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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Posts: 89
Direct Intervention vs. action, action modifier, and reaction cards

Direct Intervention
Type: Master
Cost: 1 pool
Master: out-of-turn.
Cancel a minion card as it is played. No cost is paid. (If it was an action card, the acting minion doesn't tap. If it was a strike card, the minion chooses another strike.)

If Direct Intervention is played on an action, action modifier, or reaction can the minion can just play another copy?

My predator attempts to bleed me with Governed the Unaligned, which I deny with Direct Intervention. May that minion attempt a different bleed action? I would assume no due to the No Repeat Action rule.

Incorrect. Since the NRA rule is applied to the acting minion when the action resolves (is blocked or is successful), the minion whose action card is canceled by Direct Intervention is free to attempt the same type of action again, even with (another copy of) the same card. [LSJ 19980212]

Action modifiers and reaction cards: The card that is affected by DI is still considered played, so the same minion cannot play the same card again, as per the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:57 pm
Posts: 89
Obedience vs. slave mechanic

Obedience
Type: Reaction
Requires: Dominate
Only usable when this reacting vampire is about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire.
[dom] Untap the acting vampire, do not tap this reacting vampire, and end the current action (and combat). The acting vampire cannot attempt the same action this turn.
[DOM] As above, but do not untap the acting vampire.

Slave
...if a member of the specified clan controlled by the same Methuselah is blocked, the controller can tap the slave to cancel the combat and to untap the acting vampire and have the slave enter combat with the blocking minion instead.

Is there a "window" to play Obedience just before the slave's intervention?

No, since acting vampire comes first after reacting vampire blocks.

Correct.
LSJ
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 3de17e3df2


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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Posts: 89
Simultaneous Theft of Vitae

Theft of Vitae
Type: Combat
Requires: Thaumaturgy
[tha] Strike: ranged. Steal 1 blood.
[THA] Strike: ranged. Steal 2 blood.

If two vamps at full capacity strike to steal the same amount of blood from each other, neither loses blood.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec ... 249?hl=en&

LSJ confirms the following sequence is correct, question from Ector,
answer from Salem:

If both combatants declared Theft of Vitae, and both are full, what would be the result of this? And how these strikes are resolved - both vampires lose blood, then both vampires gain blood, or vice versa, or the acting vampire's strike resolves first?

Assuming that neither of the vampires has first strike both the Thefts of Vitae were played at the same level. Result: both vampires still at full capacity.

In general: Steal happens before damage prevention and healing, but strike resolution is simultaneous for both minions. This is why blood rolls off in the case of a vampire at full capacity stealing from a minion that hits it for damage - it's the healing step that removes the blood.


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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:43 pm 
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Posts: 89
Change of Target vs. Unleash Hell's Fury

Change of Target
Type: Action Modifier
Only usable when this acting minion is blocked (play before combat, if any). Untap the acting minion, do not tap the blocking minion, and end the current action (it is not successful). This minion cannot perform the same action again this turn.

Unleash Hell's Fury
Type: Action
Requires: infernal Daimoinon
Cost: 2 pool
+1 stealth action. Requires an infernal vampire. Unique.
[dai] Put this card in play. This card may attempt to block a (D) action against you and is considered a 9-capacity infernal vampire with +2 intercept during that attempt; if successful, the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable aggravated damage, and this card is burned.
[DAI] As above, and untap this vampire. Burn option.

If I declare a bleed against my prey and she successfuly blocks it with Unleash Hell's Fury (already on the table). Can I use Change of Target to prevent Hell's effects? And if so, what happends to it?

Once the attempt succeeds, the Unleash Hell's Fury is no longer treated as a minion, the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable damage, and the Unleash Hell's Fury is burned.
You could play Change of Target then, sure, to untap. But you'd still handle the aggravated damage and the Unleash Hell's Fury card would still be burned.

Acting vampire may play CoT first (since he has priority).
He still takes the agg damage (and the UHF is burned).
-LSJ


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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:57 pm
Posts: 89
React with Conviction vs.

React with Conviction
Cardtype: Conviction
When an effect that would change control of this imbued is played or announced, you may burn this card to cancel that effect. Burn this card to cancel either a (D) action against this imbued that requires Chimerstry, Dementation, Dominate, Presence, or Serpentis or a strike card that requires any of those Disciplines played by a minion opposing this imbued as it is announced. No cost is paid.

vs. corruption counters
The Corruption counter (from Corruption or Reformation or Revelation of Despair/Wrath or Contagion) would be placed, as normal. Then, when the option to take control is exercised (and canceled by React with Convition or Diamond Thunderbolt), the effect of burning counters to take control doesn't occur. Not because the counters are a cost, but because the effect that would burn them is canceled.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... b6e2de0e0e

. . . and just to remind everyone, the corruption counters themselves have no inherent way to change control of the minion. So this doesn't mean you can just re-try the effect instantly and still get control of the minion. You'd need to play another Corruption (etc.) card to be able to trigger a new control-change, as it is the card text that allows it.

vs. Puppeteer (and other thieving minions)

Puppeteer (Wraith)
Cardtype: Ally
Cost: 1 pool
Discipline: Necromancy
Wraith with 1 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed.
[nec] The puppeteer can give you control of an ally or a vampire with capacity of less than 5 for the remainder of your turn as a (D) action.
[NEC] As above, with 2 life.

So, if I burn the React With Conviction as the Puppeteer's action is announced, it cancels his action, leaving him untapped and ready to perform his action, effectively doing nothing but burning a conviction, right?

Correct.
Just like burning RwC to cancel a Far Mastery leaves the acting vampire untapped and ready to perform another (if there's another in his hand).

vs. Wave of Insanity

Wave of Insanity
Type: Action
Requires: Dementation
This is a +1 stealth action.
[dem] (D) Tap an ally.
[DEM] Tap all allies.

Is superior Wave of Insanity considered directed at any given ally even if the action itself is undirected (i.e., the targets are controlled by more than one methuselah)?

No. An undirected action does not qualify as a "(D) action against this imbued".

Can a single React With Conviction cause the entire action to fail in this case? What if all the allies in play are controlled by the same player?

Then the action would be a (D) action, and RwC could be used (to cancel the action as it is announced).


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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:25 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Kirkland
(Perhaps this thread should be "sticky"?)

Learjet vs cards with a "Do Not Replace..." clause :
It seems that cards that read "do not replace until..." could be worded as "your hand size is one smaller until..." which I found unexpected, but now that I know it, makes thinking of interactions like this easier...

http://www.vekn.net/index.php/forum/6-r ... t-question

Quotes from a post by me on VEKN, responses by PB (our new official rulesmonger) :
Quote:
prunesquallor wrote:
Let's say that an acting minion controls a Learjet, and attempts a bleed. A block is attempted, and the acting minion plays Into Thin Air.

At this point the player has 6 cards in their hand, since they can't immediately replace Into Thin Air.


Correct. Their handsize is 6 until their next untap phase.

Quote:
prunesquallor wrote:
Next, Threats is played by the acting minion to boost the bleed. The player draws two cards to replace the Threats, and so they now have 7 cards in their hand.

Do they have to discard down to 6 cards at this point?

Yes, since the effect reducing handsize (Into Thin Air's replacement clause) hasn't ended. THeir handsize is still 6.

Quote:
prunesquallor wrote:
I did a little looking and found an interesting ruling, that seems to say that a "do not replace until..." card still gets the benefits of the Learjet once you do draw. So, in this case, when the player has their next untap phase and can finally draw to replace Into Thin Air, they draw two cards.

Correct (they draw one card, and can draw an additional card).

Vampire abilities in torpor :
There was some confusion about this one as well. Unless a vampire's card text specifically says that their ability can only be used while ready, then the vampire can use their ability while in torpor. For example, The Horde can tap to give +1 bleed while in torpor. Like the poster below, I was confused about this one.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... e7c69f943c

Original poster's questions in quotes, responses are from LSJ :
Quote:
> OK. I could swear that there used to be a rule or ruling that said that (for example) Alexandra can't use her "untap another Toreador" ability if she's in torpor. I was under


Hmm. Not that I recall. If the ability doesn't specify that the vampire must be ready, then the ability can be used from torpor (as in Alexandra's case).

Quote:
> the impression that it was a general rule that vampires can't use any of their abilities (though "restrictions" still apply) in torpor. But I can't find it in the rulebook or on the WW rulings page. Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places? Or did I imagine the whole thing?


Vampires cannot cast votes from torpor (and cannot play reaction cards from torpor, and cannot play third-party action modifiers like superior Cloak the Gathering from torpor, and cannot take "normal" actions or enter combat from torpor), but are otherwise unrestricted, except as card text makes exceptions.

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 Post subject: Re: Codex of Rulings
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:57 pm
Posts: 89
Voter Captivation vs. Freak Drive

Voter Captivation
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Presence
Only usable after resolving a successful referendum called by this acting vampire.
[pre] The acting vampire gains X blood from the blood bank, where X is the number of votes by which the referendum passed.
[PRE] As above, but move up to 2 of those blood counters to your pool instead of this vampire.

Freak Drive
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Fortitude
Cost: 1 blood
[for] Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving the action). This vampire untaps.
[FOR] As above, but usable even if the action is blocked (play after combat, if any).

The referendum and the action ending are two separate things. You do one, then you do the next. Things don't just happen all at once.
Immediately after the referendum, you get to play Voter Captivation (and/or Cryptic Rider, etc.) You are now done with the referendum references entirely.
Now you handle the action ending. At this point, you get to play Freak Drive (and/or Forced March, etc.)
You are now done with the action.


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